Well, I knew you would rise to the bait - in your own inimitable style. :winkwink:Quote:
Originally Posted by NCarver
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Well, I knew you would rise to the bait - in your own inimitable style. :winkwink:Quote:
Originally Posted by NCarver
Aww sweet, is the one on the right praying for more leg room :rofl::rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Galbavy
Forgot to mention that we have also tried the chlorhexidine rinses (you squirt these in their mouths) and a couple of water additives. Most of the cats didn't like the chlorhexidine rinses, and the vet dental specialist said that brushing with the enzyme toothpastes does more good. We tried a couple of the water additives, but none of the cats really liked the changed flavor so wouldn't drink, and they aren't usable in the fountains. I was also concerned about the safety of the primary effective ingredient. As I recall, while it is clearly safe for dogs, whether it is completely safe for cats did not seem to have been conclusively established.
Mine have a mixture of Felix / Whiskers and dry food, but also get some raw turkey mince, the odd bought from exotic pet shop as smake food mouse, and raw beef a few times a week. Chicken wings were ignored but give then a drumstick and its gone. Feral cats live happily on raw caught meat and never see a dentist or vet. Big cats eat raw meat. Anyone fancy feeding a lion on Canned food? Its still a cat! Feeding your cat is as personal as being a meat eater or veggie yourself. For as long as we all have happy, healthy pets does it really matter?
Love and hugs to the cubs Peter xxx
Since 2006 this has been labelled not suitable for cats so wtf are you recommending? It has been shown both in uk and us to have negative, and possibly fatal effects on cats. Known side effects included respiratory probs, and since 2006, following research at Dakota Uni this chemical disinfectant has carried the warning of not suitable for cats. Uk research is even worse, but will stick with the usa stuff for it proves the same. What you suggest is harmful, and kills cats, MCs are very vulnerable to the associated heart probs. If a Vet recommended they need reportingQuote:
Originally Posted by NCarver
0.1% chlorhexidine oral rinses are sold and recommended by many vets in the US and Europe, and are marketed by numerous pet product companies for both dogs and cats. If you had searched for just a minute you could easily have seen that before you posted something alarmist and almost certainly incorrect. I was unable to find any indication of problems/concerns with these dental rinses other than the possibility of allergic side effects in some animals, and they most certainly are NOT "labelled not suitable for cats." Kills cats? I really have to ask, WTF are you talking about??Quote:
Originally Posted by catslave
Here is a page for one such product from Virbac/CET:
Amazon.com: C.E.T. 0.12% Chlorhexidine Cats & Dogs Mouth Rinse 8 oz: Kitchen & Dining
and another brand:
Cat dental care: Dental Cleanser & Dental Sponges for Cats at Drs. Foster & Smith
After a fair bit of googling, I found this:
Post-Surgical Respiratory Distress In Cats Associated With Chlorhexidine Surgical Scrubs
This is discussing a completely different use of chlorhexidine, involves a concentration 20 times that of the oral rinses, and the possibility of significant exposure from cleaning large body areas. I was unable to find hits for any additional reports or studies in the intervening 15 years, so I would be interested in you posting some links to support the factual information that you claim to know. The above report involves very limited data and a great deal of uncertainty, so is of virtually no value. It also involved no deaths. Let's see some proof that chlorhexidine kills cats (though if it is topical chlorhexidine, this would not be directly relevant to the oral rinses).
Oh, yes, and chlorhexidine being used to clean ears has been associated with deafness, if it was able to migrate into the inner ear due to a perforated eardrum, etc. Again, though, not in any way relevant to chlorhexidine oral rinses and not involving death.
Also, I came across this interesting document on stomatitis during my searching:
http://www.dentalvets.co.uk/download...-FCGS-2010.pdf
from this UK vet dental specialists site:
Welcome to DentalVets
And what does the stomatitis document say? "...follow by aggressive home care with 0.12% chlorhexidine gluconate gel twice daily. (Parodongyl: Virbac)."
Guess you had better report these UK vet dental specialists! :lol:
I find the snide and sarcastic tone of this post rather shocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by elismom
The discussion about the safety of a dental rinse has nothing to do with raw feeding.
Could it be that Elismom is so vehemently opposed to raw that she is setting out to rubbish anyone who says they feed raw, for any reason?
There may be people who are feeding raw but dare not mention it for fear of this kind of persecution.
Raw feeding is not a guilty secret - it is a valid choice for many pet owners, whatever one's personal thoughts on the matter.
I think food choice is like politics & religion whatever you choose is the right option for you & its great to debate but you should all be allowed to stick to your own for whatever reason & not feel guilty,what is right for one is not necessarily right for someone else & how boring it would be if this was so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlinbob
What I like about this forum is that if people ask a question we all pop up with lots of different replies trying to help based on our own experiences & long may it last ...x
For the record I didn't google anything in relation to this mouth wash, I used to work for a major Pharmacutical Company and my Uncle still works for Solvay, who in October 2006, Following ahe AGM of the VetMed Association labelled this product as unsuitable for use for cats and kittens, due to the respiratory effects and also the link between use and deafness.
Hey kids, please take it outside. This is *my* thread. No smiley attached.
Perhaps I should intervene and get the thread back on track by talking about balls...:shy:
By "this product" do you mean 0.1% chlorhexidine oral rinses? NO. Respiratory effects from the oral rinses? NO. Deafness from the oral rinses? NO. So you simultaneously admit your knowledge is not related to the 0.1% chlorhexidine oral rinses at all and yet neither admit you were wrong about chlorhexidine oral rinses potentially killing cats, nor apologize for accusing me of suggesting something that could kill cats. Wow. You should be in politics with that kind of non-response response.Quote:
Originally Posted by catslave
Your reasoning that 0.1% chlorhexidine oral rinses are dangerous is analogous to somebody saying that since flushing one's ear with 100% ethyl alcohol when there is a perforated ear drum can cause hearing damage, drinking beer is dangerous.
Bottom line: catslave has presented no evidence to suggest a safety issue with 0.1% chlorhexidine oral rinses and I cannot find any online, they continue to be manufactured by multiple pet product companies, and they are frequently recommended by vets around the world, for cats with gingivitis issues.
Didn't work Bethy_boo but I suppose the other has a bit to do with thread as poor boys did have tooth problems its just all got a bit heavy in places,perhaps we need a section where deeper discussions like this can be carried on .....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethy_boo
And confirming that catslave has no evidence at all that chlorhexidine dental rinses kill cats--as she claimed earlier in the thread--but will not come out and clearly state--is not relevant to this thread's purpose? I cannot disagree more strongly with you! If somebody makes false claims that a product is deadly, this needs to be cleared up definitively or the info on this forum will be completely untrustworthy and therefore useless. If that is going to be the case, just to "be nice," then I don't want any association with this forum. I thought Dave was trying to set this forum up as a primary source of useful information for Maine Coon owners. So what would a new MC owner think about the safety of chlorhexidine oral rinses after reading the earlier portion of this thread? Sorry if somebody's feelings are hurt, but there needed to be a summary of the fact that no evidence pertaining to a lack of safety of these oral rinses has been able to be shown, because the issues cited arise with different formulations and applications for chlorhexidine.Quote:
Originally Posted by jckkerrison
I don't think anyone is trying to say that the forum should not post truthful things that will help us all,in this case I think some are trying to say this has gone a bit deep on someone elses thread,hence my remark that perhaps it might be an idea to ask Dave if we could have a section where these deeper matters could be carried over & not spoil the light hearted intentions of the original thread.
I would look into anything that was disagreed on anyway to draw my own conclusions if I thought it was something that affected my cat & I had thought about doing or using it that is the good thing about the forum,the things it brings to light but it is also a great forum because it is so friendly....x
I have decided to close this thread as it has gone way off the original topic.
I am aware that there are differences of opinion by many of us Maine coon/cat owners on this forum and discussion of these opinions are welcomed and encouraged HOWEVER members are kindly reminded to respect other members points of view, and also to keep this forum family friendly by not using foul language!
Members are most welcome to start a new thread to discuss the merits of "feeding raw food" or any other issues which have come up on this thread :-)
Wow what happened here over the weekend !!!???
Certainly a lot of differences of opinion, but different subjects from the opening post. As IrishKitty pointed out, remember folks that we ALL are entitle to an opinion and undoubetedly our opinions will clash. As frustrating as it may seems sometimes - we cannot always convince others to come around to our way of thinking when the other is just as convinced as you that they are right. Sooo put your point across and then let it be, there is never ever going to be anything resolved if we lost our temper and convey that in our messages.. Be calm, make your point and then go look at some cute pics in the gallery or read another thread.
We certainly don't want to encourage people NOT to air their thoughts, this is the nature of forums/dicussions groups but there's a right way and wrong way and sometimes its too easy to go the wrong way.
One big point, No vulgarity - EVER! It doesn't strengthen your argument, it will only fuel anger across parties, and remember there is no age restriction on here. There are children who also read this forum and I'm sure you would rather kids see how adults engage in healthy debate rather than heated shouting matches.
And just to re-iterate, if you see the thread going off topic from the original post, then don't hesitate to create a new thread.
That's all I have to say on the subject.
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Originally Posted by jckkerrison
